Transcript 0:00 Our goal is Bitcoin meme coins should be the de facto place to trade meme coins. I think, you know, we can look over in the Solana ecosystem, and there are a lot of network effects there. 0:12 But it's also kind of like a dumpster fire- It's a-- Yeah... in a way. Yeah. [chuckles] Uh, and so can we create a superior experience? 0:21 Can we mirror the ethos, the decentralization, the security of Bitcoin in creating a meme coin platform that is the best meme coin platform of all time? Degens should be holding Bitcoin. They should be stacking sats. 0:36 They should find ways to continue to stack more sats, and it should be on the world's greatest, most decentralized blockchain. [upbeat music] Bob Bodley, welcome to Bitcoin Season Two. 0:52 This is the first time I've had you on, and you've, you've had a storied career in the Bitcoin ordinals- Thank you... 0:59 world, and you've shipped several projects, several products, and you've been, like, the guy for, for ordinals and broader Bitcoin education. 1:07 But recently, you put out a runes-focused meme coin platform called Odin Not Fun, which has gotten crazy traction out the gate. Let's forget all the stuff that preceded this. Let's jump right into Odin. 1:25 What is Odin Fun and where is, like-- what's it doing right now? Yeah. Uh, Odin Fun is the fastest way to trade Bitcoin tokens. Uh, I emphasize speed. 1:35 You know, it's the speed of Solana with the experience of Bitcoin, and it really is blazingly fast. Uh, you know, me saying it, yeah, I don't think you can really understand it until you're there clicking. 1:46 And, uh, there's a, there's a little segment, like sneak peek for the viewers out there, but, uh, Guitar Hero, Through the Fire and Flames. [chuckles] You know, the, the, the beginning riff? Yes. Do, do, do, do, do. 1:58 Yeah. Okay. Then imagine, you know me, you know, clicking. Da, da, da, da, da, da, da. Uh, you can do purchases that fast on, on Odin Fun. So sneak peek to, like, some content that might be coming in the future. 2:09 Uh, but yeah, very, very, very fast way to trade, trade your Bitcoin tokens. 2:13 Which is crazy because this is, I would say, in direct contrast to what is kind of an intractable challenge for Bitcoin tokens basically to date. And I-- we can, we can talk about that in a second. 2:24 But, um, let, let's-- I wanna talk about just, like, what is the user experience on Odin Not Fun? Like why, why is it different than the previous token trading experiences? Yeah. 2:35 We use a lot of the fancy crypto buzzwords like chain abstraction, account abstraction, session keys. 2:42 You know, if you follow the abstract chain launch from Pudgy Penguins on Ethereum, you'll have heard all of these things. But essentially, it means you can log in with your Bitcoin wallet directly into Odin. 2:51 Uh, no new wallet, no, no new tokens. Uh, you just sign in with Xverse and, and you're ready to go. You have an account. Um, from there, you deposit bitcoin into the platform. 3:01 Um, we use, you know, some threshold signing tech in the background to, um, secure all of the Bitcoin assets. And then, um, once you're in, then basically you can trade, you know, buy and sell. 3:13 Uh, we, we've taken a lot of inspiration from token terminal type pro- projects. Which I've heard of, but I'm not super familiar with. Uh, similar to, like, Photon on S- on- Okay... 3:22 on, on Solana, where it's more of a pro trader meme coin experience. If you go to Pump Fun, it's like your eyeballs are gonna bleed out and- There's, there's too many weird fonts, and it's all over the place. Yeah. 3:33 It's very d- it's very difficult to decipher, actually. Uh, and I think that's-- that might be intentional. Like, that's kinda the vibe they're going for. Yeah. We wanted to go for a little bit more of a premium vibe. 3:41 Going from Solana to Bitcoin, I think necessitates a bit of a premium upgrade, and I think that's what we're trying to do with this product. 3:47 And so being able to log in directly with Bitcoin, you don't need any other token. You pay all of your fees in Bitcoin, and you can withdraw back to Bitcoin L1 whenever you want. 3:55 I mean, that's everything you want in a meme coin platform. Yeah. And to the user, they just log in, and it just works. Yeah. 4:02 I think it's funny because, like, you and I talk about a lot of what happens under the hood of these things, and we're familiar with, like, the warts and the, like, design challenges of, uh, how do you even solve the problem of making- Yep... 4:14 something, like, that works for the modern user. Um, and, uh, I actually want to have you try to explain to me how this works. 4:21 So let's, like, roll-- Let's, let's, let's go back a little bit 'cause the, the audience here is probably, um, a lot of people maybe from CoinDesk who aren't really intimately familiar with, like, the landscape of runes markets, and 4:37 why is it hard to trade runes on Bitcoin L1? Why is it hard to, like, all these meme-- all these Bitcoin meme coin, like, design schemes, like, why are they just structurally difficult to make work? Yeah. 4:51 Runes and BRC-20 are the largest fungible token standards on Bitcoin, and they're UTXO-based fungible token standards. 4:59 The, uh-- That means they live within Bitcoin UTXOs, and they are essentially off-chain pointers that tell you where the tokens live. And so it's a meta protocol, and meta protocols live on Bitcoin just like ordinals. 5:10 Um, you know, since January 2023, when Casey released the ordinals protocol, we've seen dozens and dozens of meta protocols come and try to do all kinds of things on Bitcoin. 5:21 And I think meta protocols are a really interesting space because they give you essentially unlimited off-chain compute. 5:28 Uh, it's like a baby step toward a roll-up in a way because you get the compute side, but you don't really get the speed. 5:35 And so that's the downside of these protocols is you have to trade at the cost and speed of Bitcoin L1. You're also limited because you don't have smart contracts on Bitcoin L1. 5:42 You just have Bitcoin script, and without OP_CAT or, you know, other, other opcodes, you don't have covenants, so you can't do what you need to do to have smart contract-like functionality. 5:53 And without smart contracts, turns out you basically just have PSPTs or partially signed Bitcoin transactions in order to facilitate atomic swaps.And so that makes AMM-based trading almost impossible. 6:05 I don't think it's actually impossible, but it's very, very, very hard. And even if you pull it off, the user experience isn't that great. 6:12 Um, and so that's, you know, that's like the history of the last two years of people trying to do all of these different kinds of things to enable a fantastic token trading experience on Bitcoin, but it's just hard. 6:24 And so that's kind of where we were. 6:26 There have been a few people who've done like s- similar type of things that, you know, you lock up some Bitcoin, you lock up some runes, and there's some kind of like off, off chain or some second layer where you swap these. 6:37 But they've had like pretty quick and, uh, like not sustained like, uh- Yeah... user bursts. 6:46 But I think you-- Odin, just by my cursory evaluation, probably has been the most successful to date of all these, and it has the, the easiest user onboarding experience. 6:56 I'm just speaking subjectively from my own experience. Um, so what did you do? Like what--why--what is actually happening to, uh, the tokens? Why don't I have to wait ten minutes for a swap to happen? Yep. Yeah. 7:11 So, uh, early November of last year, uh, me and my team got together. 7:17 Uh, we had previously built an Ordinals, an L2 Ordinals marketplace, so you could bring your Ordinals in, and similar kind of thing to what Odin's trying to do. 7:25 You could bring your Ordinals in, you could trade them, you could do all kinds of new, interesting, innovative things. Uh, really hard to get traction with Ordinals on the L2C. 7:33 Like the user, user bootstrapping problem is so difficult. So hard. Uh, I mean, in fact, this is why everyone is-- this is the hardest nut to crack. Yeah. 7:43 Um, and so we went back to the drawing board and we said, you know, we have a great team. We've built lots of great products. We have lots of great expertise and like, what, what is it that we need to build? 7:53 And so we talked about our like technical advantages and our architecture and what we wanted to build and what kind of traction and what the market needed. 8:01 And then we settled on, you know, Pump Fun was having a tear on Solana, like, I don't know, a million dollars a day, two million dollars a day, five million dollars a day in revenue. Like- It's so much money. 8:11 They've been making-- They've been printing like crazy. They've been printing. And even though it's like meme coins have s- kinda died down, it's still printing. Right. 8:17 And we have had probably four meme coin seasons in the last two years. I mean, NFTs are just kinda like, doo, dee, doo, doo, doo. Yeah. And then it was like Ordinals. Yeah. Doo, dee, doo, doo. 8:25 Um, and, uh, so we decided on building this Odin Fund product, and it, it's basically a nice blend of, like I mentioned, you know, chain abstraction, so you don't need any other token. 8:38 You can pay fees directly in Bitcoin. Um, and w- and we leverage all of this on a layer that I'm calling Valhalla, which is like my cultural abstraction for what's actually under the hood, which is a, a lot of ICP tech. 8:50 And so when users deposit Bitcoin, the Bitcoin goes into a threshold signing setup. Um, this means that all of the nodes have a private key share. 8:59 Um, they don't have the entire private key, and then twelve of them together can create, uh, the valid signature that can then control user assets. 9:06 Um, so all of the runes, all of the Bitcoin, you know, all of that is being held securely in this threshold signing setup. 9:12 And then we have smart contracts, and things are settling on the ICP layer, and that's essentially how we have, you know, two-second finality on all transactions. 9:21 There's no MEV, there's no, uh, sandwich attacks, there's no s- you know, snipe- sniping or, or like, um, man-in-the-middle attacks because you can't... I guess that's a, that's a separate thing. 9:32 Um, but, um, that's all enabled by this, you know, layer that we have just, just above the Bitcoin L1 layer. [upbeat music] Let me tell you about one of the most slept-on opportunities in crypto. 9:44 Arch is building fast, composable DeFi apps on Bitcoin. Arch apps tap into the OG blockchain with by far the most liquidity and best brand in crypto. I've known the team for over a year. 9:56 The tech they're building is solid, and they are racing towards mainnet. There's DEXs like Saturn, meme coins on funkybit.fun, instant loans on Cha-Ching, and so much more. Plus, they're rewarding testnet users. 10:08 So join me in trying out Arch while it's still early. So you've solved for this, and you've gotten like crazy traction. Before I hit record, you told me the, like, amount of volume you guy- you, you guys are doing. 10:21 I don't know if you want to say, but, like, it's massive compared to the landscape of other, like, runes exchanges. Yeah. In the last month, we've done probably about a hundred and fifty BTC in volume. 10:33 Um, the first part of that was probably like the first week or two after launch. It basically like went everywhere on like the, I would call it the Western world. Yeah. You know, all the Ordinals people knew about it. 10:43 You know, ev- ev- everyone was talking about it there. 10:45 And then in the last probably three days, we've had kind of a resurgence probably in the eastern part of the world, a lot of BRC twenty users, um, a lot of growth in the China ecosystem. 10:56 And so we probably did, you know, seventy-five BTC in volume initially and another seventy-five BTC volume in the last couple of days. 11:01 So- That's-- I'm, like, amazed you are standing awake, able to, like, have this conversation. Again, this is, what? February 26th. We're in Denver, ETHDenver. 11:10 Um, the-- I don't know if this will go out in, you know, within the week, but, like, these things move so fast that by the time we get this out, like, the entire landscape could have changed. 11:21 So, listener, this is a snapshot- Yeah... in the middle of the week of, you know- Yep... late February. 11:28 Um, but, like, part of the whole thing of, like, the Bitcoin meme coin craze is, um, [chuckles] frankly, unlocking Chi- Chinese degen, uh, money. 11:38 Like, that is the, the, uh, that's the holy grail because they are the m- they've been the main drivers of transaction fees on Bitcoin in the past year, um, mainly, you know, BRC twenty mints and bids. Yep. 11:52 Um, and you start to see traction on Odin. I mean, what, you know, drop me into the middle. You have now had forty-eight, seventy-two hours of... 12:02 uh, Chinese and Asian, like, influx, what is, [laughs] what is this teaching you? Where, where's your head at right now? Yeah. Um, the community is amazing. Uh, I've been-- You know, I got Telegram premium. 12:12 They have an auto translate, so I can jump into Chinese chats, and they're all translated in real time into English, so I can actually, you know, interface there. 12:20 I just write in English, and I hope that they're gonna, you know, handle it on, on their end. Um, but the community has been fantastic. Uh, they're all really excited about Bitcoin meme coins. 12:31 And having a platform where, you know, speed is a priority, uh, if, if you get into, like, the heart and soul of a, of a meme coin trader, you need to be able to enter and exit positions quickly because information can change in seconds. 12:47 You know, seconds can be the difference between a massive win and a loss, um, for a lot of, like, crazy, you know, hyped, hyped tokens. 12:54 And so, um, having to wait for ten minutes for your sell to go through is not an acceptable trade-off for the Solana ecosystem or, or for, for people that are actually, like, in the trenches doing, doing this kind of trading. 13:08 And so on Odin, being able to, like, in two seconds do whatever you want, add liquidity, remove liquidity, buy, sell, create a token, it's all just really, really fast. 13:16 And so it appeals to the, the need of the DJ- The, the lizard brain... heart and soul. The reactionary knee-jerk lizard brain. Yeah. Like, if you wanna buy something- Yeah... 13:25 you should be able to buy it, and if you regret it, just sell it, and it should all happen in three seconds to like, you know, calm the mind. Oh, I can buy it, and if I wanna sell it, I can just sell it. 13:34 And if you wanna nuke the chart, you can just nuke the chart. 13:37 Uh- I think one of the interes- one of the more interesting things, I think, um, we can get into maybe the nuts and bolts of how Runes itself works here is the way you've, um, addressed, um, how you get these runes onto Bitcoin L1. 13:53 Um, I won't explain it. You've come up with an interesting way to, like, placehold these names. 14:01 Um, just, you know, explain, like, uh, from the start, like, how you-- what the, what the ch-pro-problem, challenge, what the problem is- Yep... 14:09 and then how you solved this by, by issuing these runes on the second layer and bringing them to two. Yeah. So our goal was let's let people create tokens at the speed of light, essentially. 14:17 Like, creating a token should be as simple as clicking a button. Um, and with runes, that's a problem because with a rune, you have to commit, and then you have to wait six blocks, and then you have to reveal. 14:29 So that prevents anyone from, like, mempool sniping the name that you pick. Uh, the bad thing is you have to wait an entire hour to trade this token that you're creating, and that was not acceptable for us. 14:40 Um, speed was number one priority, speed and user experience, and so we could not wait an hour for tokens to be created. 14:46 So we, uh, tokens can be created really, really quickly on Odin Fund because they're on this other layer, like I mentioned. Think of them as, like, Odin-specific tokens. 14:56 And then once a token bonds, so you can buy and sell along a bonding curve, which if you don't know what a bonding curve is, it's like a-- Imagine like a E to the X type graph, and you can buy tokens and price goes up, or you can sell tokens and price comes back. 15:08 So you can move up and down the bonding curve as much as you want. It's a common liquidity bootstrapping mechanism, um, from the, you know, Pump Fund. Um, 15:17 and then once it bonds, meaning it reaches a one BTC market cap, which is a really nice thing because we're a Bitcoin platform. So you reach a one BTC market cap, and then you graduate from the bonding curve. 15:29 Uh, you take twenty percent of the tokens and zero point two BTC, and you lock it up in an AMM. And this is locked liquidity that can never be removed, so you'll-- can always trade the token. 15:38 Uh, you know, when you can tr-when you can trade tokens like crazy, you really want locked liquidity because it always gives you... 15:46 Again, you know, y- as a, as, as a trader, you want to be able to buy in or sell whenever you want to, and so locked liquidity is important. Um, and that's when we etch the token to, to Bitcoin. And what is that? Right. 15:59 So I actually think it's pretty interesting you-- 'cause you also have to solve for the issue of etching the token back on Bitcoin. 16:06 You know, if I'm a-- if I'm looking at Odin.fund, I'm like, "Wow, that token's taking off," um, I can, I can go front run the name of it by etching it before Bob's Odin platform does. 16:17 Like, you s- I do think it's kind of interesting 'cause you do actually solve for this. Yep. Yeah. 16:21 So we treat, uh, the long rune sticker more like a vanity contract address, which honestly I think is what it should, should be. That's kind of how Casey initially concepted it. He was actually very clear. Like- Yep... 16:32 you know, the ticker itself is, is just an idea. Right. And so we, uh, we give you ten characters to pick your ticker name. This is, like, the short ticker. 16:42 This is what it will show up on, you know, in tier one exchanges, et cetera. It's just the-- this name. 16:48 And so for the rune sticker, it's that name, dot, and then we have an ID and then a dot, and then [clears throat] we have a four-character ID that is unknown, so it's just, you know, question mark, question mark, question mark, question mark, and then dot Odin. 17:01 Um, just like Pump Fund includes Pump at the end of all of their contract addresses. Oh, yes. Yeah. Um, so you'll know if something comes from Odin, at least theoretically. 17:08 Um, someone could spoof s-something if they wanted. And so it's at the time of etching that essentially we have a smart contract that decides what those four characters are. No one else knows. 17:18 And then we have this, um, decentralized etching process, um, leveraging a threshold Schnorr signing setup. 17:26 And so it's, it, it's essentially again, you know, a bunch of nodes that can collectively sign a Schnorr signature. 17:32 You have to have a Schnorr signature to etch a rune because we have an image that needs to be an ordinal. And in order to inscribe an ordinal, it has to be taproot. 17:41 And so- Oh, I actually had missed this component of it 'cause you, you, yeah, you've got the image and the token. Right. 17:50 Okay, so- If, if you were just doing the token, you don't need- You just sort-- As a normalIt's just a normal- Transaction... transaction. 17:56 But if you have a image, then that means it has to be an ordinal, which means it has to be Taproot. I tried to get Casey to allow [laughs] a witness script hash. [laughs] I remember. I was right there in it. 18:06 I was like, "Casey, I support this with Bob," but he, he just didn't, yeah. Uh, so it has to be Taproot. 18:11 So this threshold Schnorr, I've been pushing for the, for this threshold Schnorr setup to be built, and it's, it's live and it's fantastic. 18:19 So we can actually etch the rune directly from the smart contract with this, um, randomized character, and so because it's four, it's what? Like 26 to the fourth or something- Yeah... um, potential options. 18:30 That's right, yeah. And so you would have to, like, basically steal all of those, which is gonna be, I don't know, millions of dollars- Best case... and, like, months, if not years, of Bitcoin block space. And so, 18:41 um, that's, that, that's how we prevent front-running and still have, uh, the valid, a valid rune. So you just sped through, like, the TLDR- I know... of this really, really quickly. I'm very impressed. [laughs] Um, uh, 18:57 I think the one thing that I am just surprised about, again, I feel like I'm looping on this, like, you've, you ha- uh, you've, you've been very good at, like, the deep technical Bitcoin discourse. 19:11 Like whenever, like, a new thing happens in Bitcoin, Vivian comes out, um, some, some new signing scheme comes out, you're like within hours... I actually try to beat you on this sometimes. 19:21 [laughs] Within hours, like, you, like, you do a pretty, like, [laughs] first blush breakdown of how it works. Um, but yet you've built a platform which abstracts all of that from the user. 19:29 Um, can you just talk to me about the importance of being deeply technical in how Bitcoin works, and then being able to build an actual product that users don't have to know any of that? Yeah. 19:44 I mean, it's a very hard problem. I mean, look at all of the products we have on Bitcoin and, like, why is Odin the first that has like, you know, made this happen? Yeah. 19:53 Um, and I think it's partly probably the, the technical knowledge. You really have to know how to craft your architecture in a way that makes viable trade-offs for your users. 20:03 If you're doing something that's like vaulting Bitcoin, like, probably don't take this Odin model, but if you're doing meme coins, definitely use the Odin model. 20:12 I think meme coin traders value speed over everything, and they're probably gonna distrust your platform if it takes too long. 20:21 [laughs] And so it's about aligning your user with your use case, with, like, the value prop, with what the market wants, with your tech, and with the user experience, and if you can like hit a, you know, shoot an arrow straight through all of those, then I think you have a winning product. 20:36 And I think this is the message to anyone building in Bitcoin. Um, I think we tend to nerd out or geek out a little bit- Yeah... on not, not just a little bit, a lot of it. A lot, yeah. 20:45 Um, all, all the time on all of the interesting technical things happening, but in the end, I mean, we took a lot of inspiration from products like Polymarket, where if you ask probably nine out of 10 users, "What is Polymarket built on?" 20:57 They'd be like- Even though the, it's in the name, they don't, they, nobody knows. They'd be like, "Uh, it's on the internet?" The blockchain, I heard. "It's, it's, it's an internet product?" Yeah. Yeah. 21:05 Like, they might not even know it's on the blockchain. Yeah. 21:07 Um, and so being able to craft user experiences and abstract away the technology, I think this is the superpower of builders that are going to win on, on, on Bitcoin. 21:18 If you look at L2s and side chains and meta protocols, I think we're gonna have this bloodbath of, like, trying to acquire users, acquiring developers, acquiring killer applications because that is, that is the currency, and I think everyone's gonna be trying to do it, and it's already starting, and so you really have to, like, thread this needle on, like, what do my users really want? 21:39 How can I give it to them with the best possible user experience, and how can I make the best trade-offs on the technical side? 21:46 Hey, this is Will with Blockspace Media, and I don't know if you heard, but we just announced the second edition of our conference series, OpNext, now to be held at the MicroStrategy HQ in Tysons, Virginia. That's right. 21:59 After the success of our first scaling conference at Fidelity last fall, we're doing it again this spring, April 11th and 12th at the MicroStrategy HQ. I'm really excited for the programming. 22:09 We have various stakeholders, industry, developers, and Bitcoin miners present. 22:14 So join us in April for open, neutral, and honest conversation about the leading proposals and technical solutions that will scale Bitcoin to the next billion users. 22:24 No booths, no tokens, no shills, just Bitcoin and honest conversation. You can find tickets and more information at opnext.dev or click below in the show notes. 22:38 Let's get into the weeds of Bitcoin technical discourse, which is kind of, I think, maybe the sidecar to this, to this conversation, which is, um, you have gone to great lengths to design these bridges and signature schemes and, like, figure out how to get users on and off chain, and, um, you know, I've, I've spent the past couple years... 22:58 I just, I just inter- I just interviewed Janis from, uh, Bitcoin Layers now, Lemondrop, talking about, like, just the challenges of, like, 23:08 all the trust that's involved and all of, like, the limit- like, Bitcoin is very limiting. It's a strength, but it can also be a weakness. So now we have... 23:17 We're, we're now pretty deep into, we're well along, like, the, the Bitcoin consensus discussion. Softworks, you've got a few proposals out there. Yep. Um, 23:28 you're pretty in the weeds even though I, you know, I don't know if a few years ago you would've said you were, like, in the center of the Bitcoin ecosystem, but I feel like you are now. 23:36 What's your, like, impr- what's your, what are your thoughts on the current state of Bitcoin consensus discussion and discourse? Yeah. I would say that I am a optimist. 23:48 Um, I think we need optimists in the Bitcoin ecosystem, and so I'll gladly play that role. Um, and I think we do need to upgrade Bitcoin. 23:58 If you look at the current limitations of Bitcoin script and you look at the whole-Uh, [clears throat] scene of like what, what people are building. 24:07 Uh, there's like interesting things on the meta protocol layer and the side chain layer and the state chain layer and the arc layer and the L2 layer and, and BitVM and Taproot and, uh, basically... 24:21 Well, I gu- guess I should add Lightning. I, I probably shouldn't not say Lightning enough- It's the, it's, it's the best Bitcoin L2 that we have. Um- And that's saying something. And I think that, um, 24:32 making the base layer better for everyone is-- it's just gonna make everyone better. It's gonna give everyone superpowers. 24:40 Um, I don't-- I mean, we could like get into the weeds on like, you know, this opcode or that opcode, but I think there are lots of good solutions, and all of them are going to be beneficial in moving Bitcoin forward. 24:53 If you could, if you could choose the best-- what, what the most ideal, uh, path to take over the next, say, two years would look like as far as some of these proposals, do you have a particular preference for what, 25:11 uh, what that might look like? Yeah, I mean, I think we have a lot of good options. Um, I like Cat obviously. Uh, my, my Twitter PFP is, is a quantum cat. I've been rocking that cat for a while now. 25:26 Um, and I think that what Udi and Eric have done with creating this cultural shift with ordinals, I think is a perfect example of leveraging ordinals in a way that can drive change in the world. 25:40 And a lot of people don't like Udi or Eric for what they say on Twitter or- They're very, they're very fiery. Yeah. Um, but I mean, that's, that's their role, I think. Um, and they, um, lean into that very well. 25:52 Uh, but Cat is good because it's concatenation, but also mirrors a lot of what Merkle trees are, um, concatenation and hashing. 26:00 And if you can do that, that gives you, um, introspection and gives you covenants and, you know, you can do lots of interesting things. But it is just a really simple fundamental building block. 26:11 Um, and there are, there are others, oth- other building blocks, but I do like adding in building blocks like this because, again, it makes every, it makes every builder on Bitcoin better. 26:22 It allows you to create better privacy solutions, better bridging solutions, more secure experiences for Bitcoin users. Like, it's-- 26:29 to me, ossification is the enemy at this point, and if we stop now, then we lose out on future growth, future gains, and so we should come together and figure out the best step forward as, as a Bitcoin community. 26:43 So back to Odin.fun. You've been treading water, uh, managing to keep the platform alive, which is amazing. I remember, like, you-- it, it, it stumbled a bit the first couple days, but, like, you got it back online. 26:55 Like, it was amazing. It was a crazy effort I think you guys managed to pull off. But, uh, it's online. You've got users, you know, coming out your ears right now. Um, what's, what's the next, uh, few months look like? 27:10 Yeah. I think on the Odin Fun side, you know, uh, the past month has been fantastic, and we've had a lot of, uh, growth and a lot of adoption by the community. 27:19 Um, the community has been absolutely fantastic, um, posting, you know, videos and songs and memes and explainers on, on social media and, and sharing it with their friends. 27:31 Um, Odin Fun would not be where it is today without the community driving it. Uh, but looking at the big picture, I mean, this is, like, the first step. 27:40 Like, we've taken one step into the, uh, spotlight, and we have, you know-- I mean, this is like a marathon. Um, I think our goal is Bitcoin meme coins should be the de facto place to trade meme coins. 27:55 I think, you know, we can look over in the Solana ecosystem, and there are a lot of network effects there. Um, but it's also kind of like a dumpster fire- It's a-- Yeah... in a way. Yeah. 28:06 [chuckles] Uh, and so can we create a superior experience? Um, w- you know, basically look at Solana as a blockchain, look at Bitcoin as a blockchain. 28:16 Can we mirror the ethos, the decentralization, the security of Bitcoin in creating a meme coin platform that is the best meme coin platform of all time? And I think that's the goal. 28:29 I mean, it's nothing short of we wanna go head-to-head with the Solana ecosystem. We think degens should be holding Bitcoin. They should be stacking sats. 28:37 They should find ways to continue to stack more sats, and it should be on the world's greatest, most decentralized blockchain. I hear you. 28:45 It sounds like you're pretty, like, po- proto-- uh, token protocol agnostic when you say that. 28:50 Um, like, it runes, obviously, is where Odin gets its nomenclature, its name, but, like, you know, we don't know what the future of Bitcoin meme coins look like. 29:01 Um, and also we've seen empirically that users do not care what type of token they're trading. They care exclusively about the ticker and the vibe. Um, does Odin not fun perhaps move beyond runes if, if the market so 29:19 signals that that might be worthwhile? Yeah. I think our unique value proposition is meme coins on Bitcoin, or probably even more broadly, just tokens. Yeah. Bitcoin tokens. 29:29 So anything that falls in Bitcoin tokens, I mean, that's a large umbrella. Very- Like, I don't care what meta protocol it is. If it has traction, we will integrate it into Odin. 29:37 If, you know-- So runes, I mean, BRC-20 is, is the next low-hanging fruit. 29:42 Um, but, I, I mean, there are dozens of other meta protocols, and there's no reason why we can't open up the umbrella to everything, even counterparty. 29:52 I mean, there's some really good provenance stories around counterparty assets or colored coins if you go way back, um, even rare sats. Like-Any of these could come and be integrated into Odin. 30:05 Like, why not trade rare SATS? Why not trade pizza SATS as a meme coin? I mean, it is. It is a meme coin. It is a meme coin, yeah. 30:12 And so, uh, all of these various categories, it's essentially, like, whatever users want, uh, we can integrate. 30:20 And so we are taking kind of a, I might say a layer zero approach to kind of interoperability here, where I think people should be able to bring their Solana and swap it to Bitcoin on Odin and then go. 30:31 I think people should be able to log in with their Ethereum wallet, log in with MetaMask, deposit some Eth, and in like, you know, two minutes you're ready to go swap. 30:38 And so have like a BTC-Eth pair, have a BTC-Sol pair, and, I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm al- I'm almost viewing this as like a black hole of sorts. 30:47 Like imagine you bring your wallet and you have all these assets, and you can just be like, "Yes, convert to Bitcoin. Yes, convert to Bitcoin. 30:52 Yes, convert to Bitcoin," and then you're just like ready to go and to, to, to trade. 30:55 It seems like all the best, all like the coolest products that like actually make me excited to wake up in the morning are like things which are just the most pragmatic approach to what users really want, and then just kind of either, you know, putting bumpers around the experience, which does orient them towards Bitcoin ultimately. 31:13 And that's just kind of what makes, you know, us excited. Um, 31:17 I feel like this is a very exciting period probably for you because, like, you have really iterated in our ecosystem and like you've, it seems like you caught fire. 31:26 So, um, yeah, I wish you the absolute best, and I hope you're very excited, and I hope you get enough sleep- Yeah... over the next few months. Thank you. And, um, yeah, where do people find you and, um, how do they... 31:41 I don't know. What's the call to action here? Yeah, call to action is, uh, you know, I can sit up here and we can talk- Yeah... 31:47 and talk and talk, and I, I think that's great and there's a place for that, but, uh, you just have to go try it. 31:53 Um, you just need to go log in with your Bitcoin wallet, you know, just deposit ten dollars, twenty dollars of Bitcoin or something like that, and then go and just buy something. 32:01 You know, go find a token you like and go and buy it, and then, you know, two seconds later it'll be done and you'll be like, "Oh, like, that's it? Oh, that was, like, that felt pretty good." 32:11 Like, you know, there's, there's something about actually experiencing it as a user. 32:15 The thing that I tell people to try is you can go set your quick buy at the top to quadruple zero one, so that's dot zero zero zero zero one BTC, so that's about a dollar. 32:26 Um, and then you can go to our quick buy, which is just our main all, all, all tokens page, and you can just click the button as much as you want. 32:33 There's nothing in the UI that stops you from repeatedly clicking the button, and then these little toast notifications show up in the bottom and start stacking up. 32:40 And then you can hover over those n-notifications and it'll fan them out for you, and you can see them all get, um, get, get completed. And so just go and do, you know, just go buy, do twenty purchases. 32:52 Uh, you can do twenty purchases in like ten seconds, eight seconds, and it's just like do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do, and then just go hover over the, the, the toast notifications and they'll all just be completed. 33:01 Like, it just, it's, it's like superpowers for, for a degen. Superpowers for, for a degen, trading at the speed of clicks. Um, this was awesome. Bob, thank you so much for coming on Bitcoin Cs Do finally. Yeah. 33:12 Thanks so much for having me. [outro music]
